An ultimate what-if scenario would have Luke joining with Vader to battle against Palpatine. Would their combined powers enable them to defeat Sidious? Although we can see the merits of both sides of the argument are strong, we can conclude that Palpatine still comes out on top.
Table of Contents
Palpatine Would Beat Vader and Luke
As fans of Legends materials are aware, Vader’s attempts to destroy Palpatine fail, time and again. This provides a foundation for seeing how Palpatine would beat Vader and Luke.
This video provides insights into Vader’s futile efforts to beat Sidious. Vader progressed from “a subservient apprentice to an aspiring usurper” but with tragic results. We can see how Vader’s “internal doubt” combined with “Palpatine’s carefully laid out plans to ensure his own supremacy” to check Vader.
Palpatine’s extreme arrogance and underestimation of Vader provided some potential vulnerabilities. Yet, Vader’s physical and mental condition disrupted his plans, while Palpatine was always one step ahead of Vader’s designs.
If we add Luke into the picture, as described more below, we can see how Luke could tip the balance of the fight. But, we can refer to the novelization of Return to help explain how the outcome would still have Palpatine prevail.
We can see how if Luke retained his weapon and fought Palpatine, he still would have lost. For one, Luke’s lightsaber attack on Sidious would have been Force pushed away. Two, and based on the novel, Luke did not know about Palpatine’s Force lightning and attempted to block it, but only was able to do so momentarily. Sidious Force lightning is just too powerful.
If both Luke and Vader attacked Palpatine, Sidious would draw on his arsenal of Force weapons to ultimately prevent them. He would mercilessly inject them both with his lightning or wipe them out with Force Drain, as he used against Rey and Ben in Rise of Skywalker. The power of two was not enough in either situation.
Could Vader and Luke Possibly Beat Palpatine?
We can see how Vader and Luke could possibly beat Palpatine if they had teamed up. After all, in Return of the Jedi, they do kind of work together at the end to destroy him. Hence, we may agree with this statement: Vader beat Palpatine “just by…picking him up.”
Another post from the above discussion adds to this line of argument by reminding us that Luke alone could have defeated Palpatine “in his chair” if Vader had not prevented him. We could make a claim then that either one of them was capable of beating Palpatine, let alone together.
Even without Luke, Vader had extreme powers that he could draw on to overpower Palpatine. As recapped in this video (at 1:26), Vader was “one of the most powerful Force users of all time” even after his defeat on Mustafar. Telekinetic abilities that choke people and stop starships alike rank high on his skill list. In theory, Vader’s “raw strength in the Force” could overpower Sidious.
Combined with Luke’s powers, we have an even stronger duo that could potentially overwhelm Palpatine. By Return of the Jedi, Luke had become stronger than Vader. We can see this fact in their lightsaber duel, now the tables had turned and Luke did not want to fight Vader because he knew he would defeat him.
Although we could claim that Luke only became vulnerable to Palpatine’s Force lightning because “he tossed his weapon aside,” we can still see how Sidious would prevail even if Luke had kept it, as shown above. While Luke may have had the skill and training to defeat Sidious on his own and with his father, even their combined Force powers were not enough.
We can recognize the merits of the counterargument but more weight goes to the perspective that Palpatine was just too powerful and one step ahead of his opponents.
Luke and Vader Still Lose
Although we can imagine the possibility of Luke and Vader combining to defeat the Emperor, it is more likely they would still lose. Palpatine’s legendary Force powers would be too much for them, never mind his ability to outplay his opponents. Yet, a sliver of hope still lingers in that we know that Palpatine did not foresee Vader tossing him down the reactor shaft.